planning mode
dating scene
Post Count: 160
Monday, September 17th, 2007
Categories: Dating Advice, Etiquette, First Dates
Today, many women are reaching levels of independence that previous times have never seen before. The ideas that were prominent in the past regarding a woman’s role in society has not only progressed, they have radically changed. Many women do not prepare themselves to finish high school, marry, and begin raising a family, as was customary for many generations. Today's woman is career minded as well as goal oriented, and she may not begin to feel ready to rear children until she reaches forty, an age previously believed to be the end of childbearing.
There is no doubt that today's woman is modernized and independent. She earns more money, makes her decisions independently, and may have mapped out the goals and plans for her life since she was a young girl. As you can imagine, the independent woman may clash with chivalrous men.
The definition of the word chivalrous comes from the medieval ages and is a word that was used to describe the acts of a knight. How many stories, movies, and fairy tales have depicted true romance as the budding love between a helpless woman in distress and her chivalrous knight in shining armor that comes to her rescue? The fact of the matter is that today’s modern woman, isn’t looking for a knight in shining armor. She is comfortable taking care of herself, and may not even believe that knights even exist. Not only does the modern woman take great issue with chivalrous men, they may find their acts of chivalry insulting.
As women become more independent, they gain more control over their own lives. To many of them, the basis of a chivalrous man is rooted in the belief that the woman is helpless and needs saving. Independent women don’t want to be saved, and they will find it rude and an insult to their character for a man to continually try to save her.
The truth of the matter is that if you are a chivalrous man, and live your life as a knight in shining armor, waiting to rescue the damsel in distress, you will be much happier finding a woman who needs rescuing. An independent woman will not appreciate these qualities and your relationship will be in trouble from the beginning.
Many acts of chivalry that can cause controversy with independent woman include men making the first move, men paying for dates, and men taking charge of the relationship and becoming the primary decision maker. The majority of independent women will not appreciate these qualities, and a man may sincerely and genuinely be chivalrous and not understand why his acts of kindness are going without reward.
If you are a chivalrous man who is dating an independent woman, there is no way around the issue; you will have to discuss it. If you’re doing things that you expect she will like and appreciate, only to find that she is angry and offended – your wall of communication will deteriorate, quickly. The best way to avoid these issues is to come right out and ask what she likes or dislikes. Don’t just assume that you will pay for every meal. Ask her how she feels about it. Find out what being courteous means to her, it may be that she likes to open doors for herself, but would rather you ask her before making decisions that affect both of you. Though it may take work, chivalrous men and independent woman can make it work, as long as they have plenty of communication.
(On March 9th, 2008 at 12:51 am)
my boyfriend is very chivalrous, and i'm very independent. it's rather difficult for us because we're both different, but it usually works out.
this article has helped though!
(On December 20th, 2007 at 4:17 am)
Hi, I'm dating an independent woman now and i agree it's all about communication. sometimes it's just difficult to know what she wants. i want to continue this relationship with this lady. can you recommend me any websites or books that I can read?
thanks
(On January 16th, 2008 at 4:15 pm)
Hello im dating a wanna be independent woman, I say however when i first started to help or give gifts it was very frustrating cause i have always been very thoughtfull and showed great taste when choosing to give. My girlfriend has been independent for quite some time. Things that she chooses to buy i feel that she blows her money on and then forgets to pay or take care of her important things.She asks for help but when she does the things she ask for are far out, i mean why wait to pay a bill when it is 3 months behind and disconected.We go out a lot to eat, movies and to spend time out of town in which I do the majority of the spending. We recently had talked of marriage and she gave me her ultimatums that 1 I pay all the bills and she pays the cost of repairs and vacations and going out of town and that sort of thing. That don't quite seem eye catching to me and i told her that i don't wanna do that. She ensists and I don't feel that way about doing thingslike that. I have always known that in order for a couple to make it it would take both people working for a common goal together,not putting the weight all on one person. I suggested that we split all the bills and or we both have an account together in wich we put funds into from a percentage of our income and manage it together.She thinks it's a bad idea and wont work cause her ideas about it has worked before with her moms relationship.I say no! I disagree because I maybe forsee that my shoulders would be crushed by a lot of responsibility.In any event I am standing my grounds on what i believe if Im wrong or you feel that i may be selfish say so. I don't think so.
Marc
(On August 19th, 2008 at 3:51 pm)
I completely disagree with your entire article. I am extremely independent, but I do want a man who is willing to take care of me. I do want a knight in shining armor. Does this mean I can't help myself or change my own tire? Of course I can, but I want to be treated like a lady. I want doors opened for me and flowers, but because I am independent, I can also do those things for you. I like to clean and cook because those are nice things to do for a boyfriend, not something I have to do. I don't need to have anything done for me, I LIKE to have things done for me. I think there is a difference. And any girl who can't see that a guy who treats you like a princess isn't great, can send them my way.
(On September 27th, 2008 at 8:51 am)
I agree with Megan. I'm also very independent and would not only appreciate a chivalrous man, but would prefer one. I didn't used to feel this way, but ever since I made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ, God has revealed to me the distinct differences between a man and a woman. I do have a good career and support myself, but would not mind having the man who God has chosen for me to take the lead. I'll be honest though, I wasn't going to wait for my knight to ride in to start planning my life, and this may be the case with many women who have become independent. With the lack of chivalry in today's culture, many women don't have a choice but to venture out on their own. That does not mean that we would prefer for a man to back out of his natural role, in fact I would prefer if he stepped up.
(On October 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pm)
I agree with Megan. Carolyn, you may have found a way of thinking that works for you, but keep in mind that chivalry and independence are parts of non-religious peoples' relationships too, as well as the relationships of same-sex couples and people who do not identify as male or female.
It is perfectly valid for a couple to desire chivalry as part of their relationship while maintaining independence, but please do not equate this to the "distinct differences between a man and a woman." It may be true for you and your partner, but please be conscious of what you are saying about other people and their relationships when you say things like "natural role." Everyone has the right to a happy life.
(On February 2nd, 2009 at 9:34 pm)
I consider myself to be an independent woman. My boyfriend is certainly the gentleman type of past generations. I pretty much had to wait around until he was ready to take our relationship further. It almost seems like our m/f "roles" are reversed in dating. Still, I can find myself giggling like a school girl when he holds out his arm for me to take, or holds the door, or pulls out a chair for me. I don't find it insulting, I understand that he is showing me respect in the way he was raised to do it. We work so well, in fact, that we've started hinting at marriage to each other a bit.
(On February 15th, 2009 at 8:17 pm)
If you know any books that I can read to help me with this issue I would like to know.
(On March 2nd, 2009 at 6:21 am)
I agree with this article, totally. Combine the chivalrous man with the pushy man and you have a nightmare (my recent experience). Being a gentleman today means, I think, being a man with a sufficient degree of self awareness, emotional integration and an awareness of other – the person they're on the date with no matter the gender so a genuine relationship is able to grow and develop (ergo = time must pass).
There is nothing more infuriating than being treated like a possession; a hapless, incapable possession that must be cornered and boxed before its too late. Gah!
(On April 19th, 2009 at 8:27 pm)
Are you kidding me with this article? ALL women appreciate a dying breed of chivalrous men. A man with manners is a KEEPER! Go forth and look very very hard all you independent ladies, and when you find him enjoy being treated like the sweet, amazing, beautiful and fascinating woman you are… and for God's sake keep him regardless of his salary…you're supposed to be earning enough to keep yourself afterall right?
Men do NOT take advice from this article! no matter how hard a woman's outer shell might appear we will all melt with your sweetness, compliments and…. wow gifts? what a guy!
(On April 27th, 2009 at 12:42 pm)
It's nice to think that even the independent women can appreciate chivalry, or manners. To be honest, it is very hard not to throw it all away after being rejected on the sole fact that I DO have manners, and take great pride in the fact that I can treat women with respect. I have had my heart torn apart by an independent woman on those grounds alone, and it makes it very difficult not to simply go out and start objectifying women. It seems that with all women, the idea the a man can have manners and be chivalrous is completely lost, like its some kind of voodoo spell that we are trying to use to get in their pants. I'm just trying to be respectful and nice. When I suggest we go out, I pay. If she suggests we go out, she pays. Why not give them a hand when they get out of the car? I have a Camaro, if anyone has been in and out of those things, they know it can be a pain. Its just courtesy and manners, not an attempt to take away there independence, or to get them to put out.
Its simply evolution at this point. When times change, things evolve to fit the new situation. The behavior of men will be no different. If women don't want that kind of guy or give the outward appearance of wanting, they will simply stop existing. Then what? Chivalry dies, and then there won't be any "good" men left. I hope I can save myself before that happens to me, or at least die before chivalry does.
(On May 13th, 2009 at 8:27 pm)
Well, I now date a very independent women and all I can say to the men here, is; if too mush of that "chivalry" stuff isn't working out, and you want to hang on to her – you better back-off and and adopt your own sense of "independence", or you'll lose her! She'll respond by drawing in towards you, rather than away from you. However, you can still be a gentleman, because a man should never give up being who he truly is. If she cannot appreciate that, dump her and find one that will!!
(On March 9th, 2010 at 10:45 am)
I'm currently dating a fiercly independent woman, and whom initially seemed to love the chivilrous things I did. Smiled from ear to ear seemed like. But recently, if seems like she's made a turn toward angry side at my efforts. She claims to still want chivilrous acts, yet makes me feel like im the worst most inconsiderate man in the world when I do. It's hard not do gett your feelings hurt when your intentions are all good.She's definantly worth the work, so Im going to back off in hopes that she will draw back towards me. If this doesn't work, I dont know if WE will.