Today, many women are reaching levels of independence that previous times have never seen before. The ideas that were prominent in the past regarding a woman’s role in society has not only progressed, they have radically changed. Many women do not prepare themselves to finish high school, marry, and begin raising a family, as was customary for many generations. Today's woman is career minded as well as goal oriented, and she may not begin to feel ready to rear children until she reaches forty, an age previously believed to be the end of childbearing.
There is no doubt that today's woman is modernized and independent. She earns more money, makes her decisions independently, and may have mapped out the goals and plans for her life since she was a young girl. As you can imagine, the independent woman may clash with chivalrous men.
The definition of the word chivalrous comes from the medieval ages and is a word that was used to describe the acts of a knight. How many stories, movies, and fairy tales have depicted true romance as the budding love between a helpless woman in distress and her chivalrous knight in shining armor that comes to her rescue? The fact of the matter is that today’s modern woman, isn’t looking for a knight in shining armor. She is comfortable taking care of herself, and may not even believe that knights even exist. Not only does the modern woman take great issue with chivalrous men, they may find their acts of chivalry insulting.
As women become more independent, they gain more control over their own lives. To many of them, the basis of a chivalrous man is rooted in the belief that the woman is helpless and needs saving. Independent women don’t want to be saved, and they will find it rude and an insult to their character for a man to continually try to save her.
The truth of the matter is that if you are a chivalrous man, and live your life as a knight in shining armor, waiting to rescue the damsel in distress, you will be much happier finding a woman who needs rescuing. An independent woman will not appreciate these qualities and your relationship will be in trouble from the beginning.
Many acts of chivalry that can cause controversy with independent woman include men making the first move, men paying for dates, and men taking charge of the relationship and becoming the primary decision maker. The majority of independent women will not appreciate these qualities, and a man may sincerely and genuinely be chivalrous and not understand why his acts of kindness are going without reward.
If you are a chivalrous man who is dating an independent woman, there is no way around the issue; you will have to discuss it. If you’re doing things that you expect she will like and appreciate, only to find that she is angry and offended – your wall of communication will deteriorate, quickly. The best way to avoid these issues is to come right out and ask what she likes or dislikes. Don’t just assume that you will pay for every meal. Ask her how she feels about it. Find out what being courteous means to her, it may be that she likes to open doors for herself, but would rather you ask her before making decisions that affect both of you. Though it may take work, chivalrous men and independent woman can make it work, as long as they have plenty of communication.
Hi, I'm dating an independent woman now and i agree it's all about communication. sometimes it's just difficult to know what she wants. i want to continue this relationship with this lady. can you recommend me any websites or books that I can read?
thanks
Hello im dating a wanna be independent woman, I say however when i first started to help or give gifts it was very frustrating cause i have always been very thoughtfull and showed great taste when choosing to give. My girlfriend has been independent for quite some time. Things that she chooses to buy i feel that she blows her money on and then forgets to pay or take care of her important things.She asks for help but when she does the things she ask for are far out, i mean why wait to pay a bill when it is 3 months behind and disconected.We go out a lot to eat, movies and to spend time out of town in which I do the majority of the spending. We recently had talked of marriage and she gave me her ultimatums that 1 I pay all the bills and she pays the cost of repairs and vacations and going out of town and that sort of thing. That don't quite seem eye catching to me and i told her that i don't wanna do that. She ensists and I don't feel that way about doing thingslike that. I have always known that in order for a couple to make it it would take both people working for a common goal together,not putting the weight all on one person. I suggested that we split all the bills and or we both have an account together in wich we put funds into from a percentage of our income and manage it together.She thinks it's a bad idea and wont work cause her ideas about it has worked before with her moms relationship.I say no! I disagree because I maybe forsee that my shoulders would be crushed by a lot of responsibility.In any event I am standing my grounds on what i believe if Im wrong or you feel that i may be selfish say so. I don't think so.
Marc
my boyfriend is very chivalrous, and i'm very independent. it's rather difficult for us because we're both different, but it usually works out.
this article has helped though!
I completely disagree with your entire article. I am extremely independent, but I do want a man who is willing to take care of me. I do want a knight in shining armor. Does this mean I can't help myself or change my own tire? Of course I can, but I want to be treated like a lady. I want doors opened for me and flowers, but because I am independent, I can also do those things for you. I like to clean and cook because those are nice things to do for a boyfriend, not something I have to do. I don't need to have anything done for me, I LIKE to have things done for me. I think there is a difference. And any girl who can't see that a guy who treats you like a princess isn't great, can send them my way.
I agree with Megan. I'm also very independent and would not only appreciate a chivalrous man, but would prefer one. I didn't used to feel this way, but ever since I made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ, God has revealed to me the distinct differences between a man and a woman. I do have a good career and support myself, but would not mind having the man who God has chosen for me to take the lead. I'll be honest though, I wasn't going to wait for my knight to ride in to start planning my life, and this may be the case with many women who have become independent. With the lack of chivalry in today's culture, many women don't have a choice but to venture out on their own. That does not mean that we would prefer for a man to back out of his natural role, in fact I would prefer if he stepped up.
I agree with Megan. Carolyn, you may have found a way of thinking that works for you, but keep in mind that chivalry and independence are parts of non-religious peoples' relationships too, as well as the relationships of same-sex couples and people who do not identify as male or female.
It is perfectly valid for a couple to desire chivalry as part of their relationship while maintaining independence, but please do not equate this to the "distinct differences between a man and a woman." It may be true for you and your partner, but please be conscious of what you are saying about other people and their relationships when you say things like "natural role." Everyone has the right to a happy life.
I consider myself to be an independent woman. My boyfriend is certainly the gentleman type of past generations. I pretty much had to wait around until he was ready to take our relationship further. It almost seems like our m/f "roles" are reversed in dating. Still, I can find myself giggling like a school girl when he holds out his arm for me to take, or holds the door, or pulls out a chair for me. I don't find it insulting, I understand that he is showing me respect in the way he was raised to do it. We work so well, in fact, that we've started hinting at marriage to each other a bit. :)
If you know any books that I can read to help me with this issue I would like to know.
I agree with this article, totally. Combine the chivalrous man with the pushy man and you have a nightmare (my recent experience). Being a gentleman today means, I think, being a man with a sufficient degree of self awareness, emotional integration and an awareness of other - the person they're on the date with no matter the gender so a genuine relationship is able to grow and develop (ergo = time must pass).
There is nothing more infuriating than being treated like a possession; a hapless, incapable possession that must be cornered and boxed before its too late. Gah!
Are you kidding me with this article? ALL women appreciate a dying breed of chivalrous men. A man with manners is a KEEPER! Go forth and look very very hard all you independent ladies, and when you find him enjoy being treated like the sweet, amazing, beautiful and fascinating woman you are... and for God's sake keep him regardless of his salary...you're supposed to be earning enough to keep yourself afterall right?
Men do NOT take advice from this article! no matter how hard a woman's outer shell might appear we will all melt with your sweetness, compliments and.... wow gifts? what a guy!
It's nice to think that even the independent women can appreciate chivalry, or manners. To be honest, it is very hard not to throw it all away after being rejected on the sole fact that I DO have manners, and take great pride in the fact that I can treat women with respect. I have had my heart torn apart by an independent woman on those grounds alone, and it makes it very difficult not to simply go out and start objectifying women. It seems that with all women, the idea the a man can have manners and be chivalrous is completely lost, like its some kind of voodoo spell that we are trying to use to get in their pants. I'm just trying to be respectful and nice. When I suggest we go out, I pay. If she suggests we go out, she pays. Why not give them a hand when they get out of the car? I have a Camaro, if anyone has been in and out of those things, they know it can be a pain. Its just courtesy and manners, not an attempt to take away there independence, or to get them to put out.
Its simply evolution at this point. When times change, things evolve to fit the new situation. The behavior of men will be no different. If women don't want that kind of guy or give the outward appearance of wanting, they will simply stop existing. Then what? Chivalry dies, and then there won't be any "good" men left. I hope I can save myself before that happens to me, or at least die before chivalry does.
Well, I now date a very independent women and all I can say to the men here, is; if too mush of that "chivalry" stuff isn't working out, and you want to hang on to her - you better back-off and and adopt your own sense of "independence", or you'll lose her! She'll respond by drawing in towards you, rather than away from you. However, you can still be a gentleman, because a man should never give up being who he truly is. If she cannot appreciate that, dump her and find one that will!!
I'm currently dating a fiercly independent woman, and whom initially seemed to love the chivilrous things I did. Smiled from ear to ear seemed like. But recently, if seems like she's made a turn toward angry side at my efforts. She claims to still want chivilrous acts, yet makes me feel like im the worst most inconsiderate man in the world when I do. It's hard not do gett your feelings hurt when your intentions are all good.She's definantly worth the work, so Im going to back off in hopes that she will draw back towards me. If this doesn't work, I dont know if WE will.
Wow, I can really relate to all the comments in here. I've been dating an independent woman almost three months now. I just started to figure that she is just like the other woman on here. I come from an Italian family and I am a very chivilrous man by nature. There isn't anything I wouldn't do for this girl. Lately though, no matter how much I tell her how beautiful she is or that I want to take care of her car, things in her home etc... She creates this aura of distance. It does hurt. Now, I don't want her to say aww your so great every two minutes, but some kind of sense that I am appreciated and not getting on her nerves would be nice. If I have to tell this to a woman, then it's by me "forcing" the an apprecaiting comment out of her is not worth it to me. I guess her distancing lately means she is getting annoyed so like the guys here say, I will start today and back off if thats what she wants and we will see what happens. Good luck all. Chivilry 0 Independence 1
Eli again..I back off ..and shut her out somewhat ...and she dropped me! I tried to back off, and keep my hurt feelings to myself, but holding stuff in never works people ..eventually everyone ..and I mean EVERYONE Blows!!
Good luck chivilrous guys!!! I'm back to being an Asshole...Chicks gravatate toward them!
I'm one of these women that the article talks about. I can't stand it when I am in a relationship with a guy who acts dependent all the time. It's the worst, biggest turn-off. Rick is absolutely right, you will lose the girl or your relationship won't be so good if you don't get your own independence. It will make her draw in towards you when you do. Don't act withdrawn or like you don't have any feelings (like the way my boyfriend interpreted my advice) GRR. Just act loving, but don't act like you have to be this sensitive mushy guy all the time that's always giving compliments and stuff.
lol! This article is B.S. but to the commentators here. There is a difference between chivalry and being all over a chick like white on rice.
And there's a difference between an independant woman and a nit-picky beatch.
Women don't like assholes. They like MEN who are chivalrous, generous, independent, self-aware, and expressive with good social skills.
Independent women miss having men that are chivalrous; but what we don’t like are men that can’t sit in the same table with a woman and won’t take mechanical advice just because it’s a men department. Too many man still place women in a category based on the topic; instead of seeing them as individuals with individual mines.
Independent women still like their door to be open, a ‘just because’ flower, etc. Independent women like to be romanced wish we had more chivalrous men in the world, but please do not confuse chivalrous with being irresponsible, or men that become dependent just because the women has decided to become independent.
I agree with Megan! I too am an extremely independent woman and would love nothing more than to be with a man who not only values me but understands that while I may not have a need to be rescued I do need a partner in my life to love and share my world with. In my experience men have created situations that aided in the creation of my extreme independence. My mom calls me a loner and says that men need to feel needed. My response to her was that men often seem to have a flawed perception of exactly what being needed means. I have been rejected by men who are my equal socially and career wise because they ran to women who created the illusion of needing to be rescued only to attempt to run back to me because they realized that those women's neediness was an emotional trap to get them roped in. In my experience men often create situations where they reject women who are smart and have themselves together, because of their own insecurities, leaving that woman to create and cultivate the exact qualities they initially intended to provide. Those qualities include safety, security, consistency, and stability. To say that independent women are often offended by a man who attempts to provide those qualities is asinine. I'm offended that someone would even say that about independent women. Who wouldn't want those qualities in a partner? A smart person who is able to cultivate those things for themselves knows that having another person around to provide those qualities is a benefit that can be mutually shared.
Please help me understand, my man says I need to learn to turn my independence off. He told me to check my independent at the door. He says I need to let a man be a man. He says I bulldoze him and frequently disrespect him. He say I antagonize him and that hurts his feelings. He questions if I love him why would I want to hurt him. He feels there is an imbalance in how much were care and respect each other. I disagree with most of that and feel like he needs to man up. Is that insensitive? I have really tried in this relationship to find things he can do for me so he feels appreciated. But that is me changing to make the relationship last. Maybe he should find someone who would appreciate him more? PS we are both Geminis.
I don't understand all the confusion. I guess I have a simplistic outlook on life. I am an independant woman. I own my own home, I educate myself, I have my own business,I make my own money, I travel alone if my boyfiend can't join me, I take myself to dinner or out for coffee if I feel like it and my boyfriend isn't around or is busy. I view us as equals therefore I am not offended if my partner wants to pay for me, open doors, send me flowers.....however I don't see that as being necessarily 'chivalrous'. I see that as 'having manners and showing respect'. In turn, I also have manners and show respect. I love to pay for him when we are out, I like to open doors for him, I may not send him flowers (although he has liked it when I've thrown some I've picked up along the way into a vase in his house) but I will buy other small little gifts for him from time to time.....just to let him know I love and appreciate him. I love to cook dinner for him, serve it and clean up the mess afterwards while he relaxes...he does the same for me. As i said...I see us as equals. Any man who doesn't appreciate what I do for him (for the simple fact that I want to) isn't worth wasting my time on. And I always let it be known I appreciate all he does in return. Not because hes a man and I'm a woman. But because we're both human beings who care about each other and do things for each other simply because we enjoy it. Again, whats the confusion??
@ Megan.... Couldnt agree with you more. You said it perfectly!